Transcript of Chat Session held on

Tuesday, February 23, at 3:00 PM Eastern (US) The definitive global resource for helpdesks, customer relationship management and technical support.

First 'Guest Star' was Kym Gilhooly, editor of Service News magazine -- http://www.servicenews.com

Note: Thanks to Lil Robinson of NC State University for taking the time to format and rearrange the text (no other editing done) to make it much more readable. Thanks, Lil!

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:54:24 PM pverghis: Kym, are you warming up your fingers?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:54:40 PM Kym Gilhooly: It's an intimate gathering. Yes, I'm ready whenever you are.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:56:00 PM pverghis: 30 seconds to go.... Hi eugene

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:56:07 PM Kym Gilhooly: Is that Eugene Ball?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:56:16 PM esball: Hi Kym.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:56:26 PM Kym Gilhooly: Hi Eugene. How goes everything down South?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:56:48 PM pverghis: OK, let's get started ... First, some groundrules and expectation. setting...

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:57:30 PM pverghis: Thanks to everyone for taking the time to join in. I've already had a number of folks offer to be guest stars for our next session, next month.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:57:53 PM pverghis: This session is officially unmoderated. If things get too rowdy, well...

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:57:03 PM peaklor: Ron Muns, sitting with me in CO, says hi to all.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:57:18 PM Kym Gilhooly: Hi Ron.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:57:13 PM esball: Would you like to come to NC to cover HDPA, HDI and Help Desk 2000 explain to our local chapter how they can help us?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:58:10 PM Kym Gilhooly: Is that question for me, Eugene?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:58:21 PM esball: Yes Kym.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:58:35 PM Kym Gilhooly: Sure, let's talk about it later.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:58:43 PM esball: Okay.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:58:11 PM pverghis: Please go ahead with your questions.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:59:06 PM BartPrine: Ron. Hello. I met u at the Suport Serv Seminar in Reno a few years back (the year u sold to Astea.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 02:59:52 PM pverghis: Kym, can you tell us your thoughts on where each of the following group's strengths are? HDI, HDPA and HD2000.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:03:08 PM Kym Gilhooly: Sure. Briefly, I believe that HDI has got years of time and money invested in working with help desk professionals, and that history, although sometimes a negative thing, works to its advantage. HDPA, Ivy Meador's new org., has the strength of a very driven practitioner behind it, and she may be able to do great things given that passion. I like HelpDesk 2000's agressive move into this space, as well as some of the monetary offerings they're making to incent chapters to join on. I also like the commitment HD 2000 promises in terms of outreach.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:00:39 PM peaklor: Hi Bart...Kym, I'll ask one...Weird times...how is all this going to shake out. Is this one of these situations where all will do well be cause "a rising tide floats all boats"? or what.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:00:56 PM peaklor: That was me...Ron.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:04:36 PM pverghis: Per Ron's question -- is there space for all and all will do well, or do you see some winners?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:06:00 PM Kym Gilhooly: Ron. I think your comment is apt. The attention that HDI is getting--as well as what seem to me to be support's rising star--will only serve to provide better services for everyone. I've been very pleasantly surprised as the energy that I've been seeing lately.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:02:52 PM BartPrine: I would very much like to see a HD professionall Ass. A real one. Do any of these have the capacity to evolve into such?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:05:16 PM esball: Kym, do you think that HDI plans to delieve anything to the market place?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:07:43 PM Kym Gilhooly: I think HDI is under a lot of pressure lately, given their infrastructure problems and that they don't seem to have that strong face to the public--a la Ron or Char LaBounty or Pete McGarahan--that they've had in the past. I do believe that they'll make every effort now to address the outreach problems, just as they've addressed their internal problems. The next six months should be very telling.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:07:14 PM pverghis: Bart's question was about a professional association -- do you think. any of the three can evolve into one?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:11:16 PM pverghis: Kym, are you working on a response?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:11:51 PM Kym Gilhooly: Bart's question. I think that Ivy's group, if it can address the very difficult problems associated with running an organization like a business, will be worth watching. If we're talking about nonprofit, that is. Help Desk 2000 has a good business infrastructure in place, and that will play well to delivering on benefits. IS there still an industry nonprofit in the works?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:07:17 PM Rjoslin: I recently sent a message to Bill Rose - HDI, Pete McGarahan - HD2000, and Ivy Meadors - HDPA asking for a variety of information about goals, visions, chapter support, member benefits, etc. I have yet to get a response, but my goal is to build a comparison matrix as a part of the due diligence investigation I am doing on behalf of the Pittsburgh HDI chapter. I would love to get as much info on all there organizations as possible and would then be willing to share the results.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:15:28 PM Kym Gilhooly: Rjoslin. I'd love to see a comparison matrix. That's something we could use in the publication.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:17:21 PM Rjoslin: Sure. Send me your email and I will share. No specific time estimate as I am dependent on the players. My email is joslin@serviceware.com.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:18:06 PM peaklor: Sounds interesting ...would like to see the matrix also...Ron/Paul.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:12:45 PM Kym Gilhooly: And again. though HDI has its problems, it's still got a thriving membership.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:12:54 PM pverghis: Kym, I'll answer the question about the nonprofit. Ivy had committed to a non-profit, and I would hope that this is followed through on.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:13:49 PM Rjoslin: Ivy is registering HDPA as non-profit.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:14:21 PM Kym Gilhooly: Yes, and I believe she's followed through on that.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:13:34 PM Kym Gilhooly: Also important, I think, is the ability of all these organizations to truly deliver on an Internet-based business model.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:14:32 PM BartPrine: timed out.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:14:39 PM pverghis: While we are talking about organizations -- Ron Muns -- can you tell us about your group and where you see this fitting in? Then Kym, care to comment on Ron's answer?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:15:01 PM peaklor: Sorry, I was gone for a minute...Malcolm Fry Called me on my mobile phone from Australia...Melbourne to be exact...Ron ... I agree with what you said Kym. I think there is a role for all. but only if the industry groups cooperate for the best interest of the professionals. Listening to the members is the key...The organization that does not listen will not survive. ...yes...let me send this and I add a comment.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:16:57 PM peaklor: We are a web based group. We want to have bulk subscribers (all organizations listed above), and we have subscribers. We want to become the place on the web where support pros go first. Lots of places to get information. We wont have it all, but we want to become a key resource. Ron.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:18:47 PM Kym Gilhooly: Ron, you're right about the need to listen, and listen well. There's no longer just one organization here--there are some very strong people coming into this space, and the one that delivers on user needs will be the one people flock to.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:16:41 PM rod: Mornign all, hi there Kim. Can I ask if HDI is going through trials all over the world? ie in Australia as well or is it just the USA?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:18:18 PM rod: Moring again, just to repeat my request: to Kym, is HDI having troubles worldwide or is it just in the USA?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:19:32 PM pverghis: Kym, Rod's question re: international issues re:HDI?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:19:50 PM Kym Gilhooly: Fron what I've heard Rod, there are disgruntled users in other countries as well. What's your experience been? I've seen some people in Canada getting pretty vocal.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:20:47 PM rod: In Australia they had something of a pick up last year which impressed me, new management etc. But in San Frncisco all I heard was a lot of disgruntled moans

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:21:45 PM Kym Gilhooly: Well, that's encouraging Rod. We should make some time to talk more about the international work, given the ever-increasing focus on globalization.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:16:50 PM pverghis: folks, sorry to interrupt -- I suggest you periodically hit return, otherwise it looks like you will be logged off.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:17:08 PM pverghis: I will 'tweak the parameters' next time.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:20:48 PM Kym Gilhooly: Actually, Mr. Joslin, I've been meaning to get ahold of you for my knowledge management special report. i'll call you this week.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:21:25 PM Rjoslin: Please do, I would be happy to talk with you.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:21:07 PM pverghis: Kym, do you see there being a shakeout soon or is too early to tell? I think this is the #1 issue for most local chapters -- join one, more than one of the groups, or become independent?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:22:53 PM Kym Gilhooly: My feeling is that there's enough unrest that a number of the local chapters in the U.S, will continue to do as they've done lately, and count on themselves. I really feel the next six months, as I said, will tell us where this thing is headed.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:23:20 PM Rjoslin: Reply to Pverghis - that is exactly the discussion that the Pittsburgh chapter had. Who to align with or have an alliance with? Thus the need for the due diligence. When asked if anyone was getting value out of HDI. The answer was a unanimous NO, only the local chapter provided value.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:22:50 PM ChrisHRDC: Does anyone know if the other organizations are going to spread into Canada as well?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:23:54 PM Kym Gilhooly: Hi Chris. I don't know, but I can find that out for you.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:23:58 PM peaklor: Related to the international situation...Austies are pretty independent...the Nordic countries are now Support Services Institute - Nordic...In the U.K. support space is dominated by Customer Service Management - help desk focus...France, Germany, and Benelux are with HDI, but not very happy. ..Ron

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:24:49 PM Kym Gilhooly: Ron, have the problems in Europe been similar to those here?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:26:04 PM peaklor: The Europeans have become independent...like the local chapters...They buy a few books and liferafts...but basically are self supportive.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:26:26 PM rod: Are the europeans a franchise or an arm of HDI?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:27:58 PM peaklor: The country partners basically buy products, use the HDI logo, and are financially independent (I used to set them up and am still friends with them). Ron

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:23:40 PM rod: Well I made the effort to get from New Zealand to San Francisco for an HDI conference and I was wildly disappointed with aspects of it, happy with a few but in the main - disappointed. Also there doesn't seemt to be any crosslinks between HDI-USA and HDI-Oz so I get mail (and bills) from both.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:25:42 PM Kym Gilhooly: Rod, that's interesting about the bill problem. Seems to point to some of the issues that Bill Rose mentioned to me, and that they're working on.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:25:10 PM pverghis: Kym, do you know the relationship between HDI/Ziff and Customer Support mangement? They did not reply to my 'open letter to ziff davis' when this thing blew open.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:25:53 PM pverghis: Oops, that should be Customer Support management magazine.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:26:41 PM Kym Gilhooly: I've asked a number of people that question, Phil, and I've not gotten any definitive response. I know K Grayson is on the advisory board for Support Services, so I assume they have a close working relationship.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:27:29 PM kblount: For those of you in Europe, you may be interested to know that Help Desk 2000 is expanding into Europe next month and have had great response initially.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:27:37 PM BartPrine: point of information: Phil: are you logging this and if so, can I get a copy?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:28:26 PM pverghis: Bart -- I will (hopefully) log this and post it to the web.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:28:41 PM BartPrine: tanx.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:28:14 PM pverghis: (Question in que when others are done) -- what do you think about the move by HDPA to have a conference? Do you think this will get into turf wars with Ziff?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:30:02 PM Kym Gilhooly: Phil: It's our feeling that Ziff and DCI (sponsoring Ivy's group) are going to get into a major turf battle over this. DCI will eventually push the help desk event head to head with Support Services, and wrap it all up under the CRM banner. That's going to be something to watch as these two behemoths slug it out in that conference space.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:32:00 PM Kym Gilhooly: Of course, the conference battle could spell real value for attendees, because content will rule the day, or should.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:29:13 PM rod: ron, why is there no co-operative links e.g. access to web info on the members page. Australia have been suggesting a functional web site for 2 years now and i just ask - what do i get for my $1000.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:31:13 PM peaklor: Rod, seems like there should be all kinds of cyber pointers. Kym, I agree with your conference comment ....Ron BTW, Rod, what were you promised for your $1,000...and is that NZ dollars?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:32:55 PM rod: Ron, thats in NZ dollars and thats the membership costs for us to belong to HDI. I believe it was to have covered Liferaft and access to HDI resources eg web pages, books, newsletters, conference discounts.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:31:52 PM rod: thanx phil, I need to go and sort a problem or 10. If anyone wants to contact me - email is r.mcpherson@auckland.ac.nz.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:32:57 PM BartPrine: Did folks read the Feb 15 COMPUTERWORLD article (page 40) on HDI?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:33:25 PM rod: Bart, is that article on-line?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:33:47 PM BartPrine: rod I don't know, I have it right here in paper format.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:34:11 PM Kym Gilhooly: haven't seen it yet. What's the upshot?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:34:21 PM pverghis: I did read the computerworld article on it. I think pc week may have done something as well on the hdi unrest.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:34:22 PM rod: Bart, could you email that to me :) (kidding)

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:36:08 PM kblount: The Computerworld article is online at http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/9902159012.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:37:08 PM BartPrine: kblount and I was just surffing the computerwolrd site lookin fer that. thanks ;)

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:37:50 PM BartPrine: Kym it basically says everythin you Ron et al have said here about HDI, HDPA and HD2000.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:38:03 PM peaklor: I was just about to give the url...Kym, things are in a building phase. We are looking for subject matter experts. Anyone interested should contact me at rmuns@supportresearch.com...It is going to be changing a lot in the next few months. Lot of fun.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:35:28 PM Kym Gilhooly: Ron, how are things going with SRN?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:36:58 PM pverghis: reminder -- you may need to periodically (every 8 minutes or so) hit enter to avoid getting kicked off. Will fix this 'feature' next time.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:38:41 PM pverghis: Kym, let's change focus a second and ask about service news. How is it doing? Can we help?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:38:57 PM Kym Gilhooly: Great. I'll look forward to reading it. I've got an open question for everyone: What are you planning to do about your local chapter memberships? Are you liking any of the new groupsout there?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:41:10 PM esball: TriHDI is holding a meeting in April with at least HDI and Help Desk 2000 present to our local membership how the nation orgaination can benefit each member.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:41:55 PM esball: We have invited HDPA, but we do not have a commitment from they at this time.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:41:11 PM peaklor: Hey, Kym...I have a few historical thoughts on the chapters and the reason for the problems...but I'll wait til you get some feedback from your question. We could talk off line too. Ron

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:41:23 PM Kym Gilhooly: Great Ron, Keep me posted. Actually, all of you can help us a great deal, as I'm working to add practitioner comment on a regular basis, in the form of columnists, etc. We have a great column in the March issue by Jera Anderson, who was instrumental in some of Network Associates' turnaround on Magic. I've got Liza Lowery of the City of Milpitas writing for April.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:42:14 PM Kym Gilhooly: That sounds good Ron. I've gotten some good background material from Char, but would love to get your input.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:41:12 PM BartPrine: the zen expression "Wu Wi" comes to mind. (Creative Inactivity)

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:42:15 PM Rjoslin: We need to determine which group(s) will provide value to the members and the chapter. By aligning with a national organization, the local chapter is able to gain credibility with local universities (a source of new energetic resources), so we want to make sure its the right one.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:43:10 PM kblount: Rjoslin - How do you determine the value offered by the different organizations?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:45:46 PM Rjoslin: We are asking each organization what they will do for the members. Information sharing, discounts, membership, promotions, networking, etc. Who can promote the profession, the networking, the education, etc. There is no easy answer to this question.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:43:29 PM Kym Gilhooly: Yes, Rick, and it's good, I think, that you've got some choices now to find what best fits particular needs.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:45:12 PM pverghis: Has everyone got questions answered? Do we have a few more comments/ questions for Kym? Once that is done, you are welcome to stay on and continue this conversations...

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:46:30 PM kblount: Has anyone heard about the Help Desk 2000 Communities program?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:48:17 PM pverghis: Let's wait a little bit to see if Kym is coming back. If so, I'd recommend that we start winding down the 'official' portion of the chat.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:49:01 PM BartPrine: Phil, this is great, but I keep timing out.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:49:23 PM BartPrine: Phil a std IRC or ICQ channel might be an option

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:50:27 PM pverghis: I think this is because of the clients being used AND my messing around with the inactivity timing. I will take care of it next time.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:51:06 PM pverghis: As some of you have pointed out, the regular java (non-light) client is OK. I will add the irc client next time.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:49:23 PM Rjoslin: Because HDPA and HD2000 are relatively new entries and HDI is void of information, many people will continue to watch. What will the editors write about? What will the gurus of the industry say? Which organizations will gain support of the local chapters and industry experts? Still to early to call. I am betting on HDPA personally.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:50:04 PM BartPrine: I too have hopes for HDPA.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:52:02 PM peaklor: Bye all from Ron and Paul. Thanks.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:52:06 PM pverghis: Was this useful? I presume Kym will attempt to get back on soon. In the meantime, I want to thank all of you for taking the time to join in.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:53:09 PM esball: Phil, this was good. Thanks for making the space available.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:53:43 PM Rjoslin: It's a start. What would be really cool would be for Ivy, Bill, and Pete to be on a panel at the SSCE show

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:01 PM BartPrine: Phil Thanks for hosting this and PLEASE post it to your website! I enjoyed it and it was informative.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:55:26 PM rod: thanks Phil, sorry to come and go but mornings are busy around here :)

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:53:55 PM kblount: HDPA seems to be hanging a lot on its non-profit status, but do we this will be limiting to member benefits?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:12 PM rod: does HDPA have a web address?

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:41 PM esball: http://www.hdpa.org

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:17 PM esball: Phil, is there a way from people to post information the find out about the offering of the organizationa?<

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:45 PM pverghis: I have offered to post this up on my web page.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:54:20 PM kblount: I'm sure Pete would be all for that!

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:55:47 PM pverghis: Ok then, thanks to all. I will dig through the manual to see how to get at the logs.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:55:58 PM pverghis: Feel free to stay on and chat if you need to. This is officially over now.

Tue Feb 23, 1999 03:59:05 PM Kym Gilhooly: Phil, are you still there? Sorry, had major technical difficulties for a second. could haved used some help desk support